March 2006 Archives

If there is no REAL communication between individuals in a relationships, I believe they will eventually drift apart. Communciation is the glue that holds relationships together. The lack of this facilitates the common occurance where the relationship transition from a friendship to roommates or acquaintances with occassional sexual interludes!

Nothing takes the place of communication", a person may intellectually grasp this, but the amount of work entailed to make meaningful communication a reality is beyond our current pop culture comprehension. Our individual baggage and histories preclude real communication, not only do we follow different scripts, but our words don't have the same meanngs. Real communication requires an openness, an honesty, a trust that many of us have not found. Additionally, to be open or transparent to another person is a scary proposition.

It's much easier to stay on the surface, it's how we have been socialized, it's how many of us are most comfortable. Look at our society, where is the depth, as we are bombarded by more info than ever before our discource is less substantive. To really communicate with another person takes courage, trust and persistence by both parties. We must rise beyond our socialization. Doable, but not easy

Why do some individuals feel that their relationships MUST work regardless of how unhappy they are Do some people seek some sort of salvation through their relationships? Does a relationship somehow validate that person, make them feel worthy? Is there such a thing as addictive relationships where the individuals become dependent upon pathological patterns of interaction like a drug

Like most people I want to be in a committed relationship but I'm not. The reasons are a combination of some things we've discussed but it was best described by the question to me by a woman. That question was: Hey Roy, are you reluctant to get involved in a relationship because you're afraid of what you might miss? How many of you are in this situation??

How many of you are not ready for a long term relationship and why? Is the end of the last relationship too current? Are you still dealing with your anger and pain? Are you afraid of what you might miss? Do you have too much psychological baggage? (You know the kind that's not easy to pack away)

Well guys I've been on another date and its getting old......

So far I've thought alot about the questions we've raised and I wonder that
regardless of the answers received if our internal clock/spirit/intuition
does not make a connection what then??

Initially in my quest to find a partner I felt that she had to be educated,
good job, not have young children, be able to stimulate me intellectually
and be able to confirm that we're on the same page and see what happens.
Unfortunately, in most instances we were not on the same page, and/or;
myself or that person got scared with the following justification (things
happening too fast, or asking oneself do I really want to be in a
relationship, do I just want enjoy the thrill of the conquest, is this the
right one, or do I just want to get laid/layed).

Again, all the questions raised are important but, do you want to conduct an
interview or just interact, get to know the person and let everything will
be revieled naturally. Following is a msg that I've shared with some women
and the results are answers to some of our questions.

Walls

Consider the wall. There are two kinds of walls. There is a bearing wall,
which is a wall you cannot do without. A bearing wall is designed to bear
the weight of the structure. The wall with a window in it is a bearing wall
because it holds up the weight of the roof. But it cannot be a bearing wall
unless its inextricably, fundamentally connected to the foundation. If the
wall that is around your life is not connected to the foundation, it is not
a bearing wall. If walls around your life are not connected to the rock, it
will not sustain the weight of your problems, your difficulties, your
trials....
You need to be connected to the rock "For none can lay any foundation other
than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

There is also this other wall; (Ephesians 2:14-1 It is the middle wall, it
is the interior wall. You can move that wall and the building will still
stand. The problem with the interior wall is that we create them. We make up
our own interior walls. We make up our own middle walls. This middle wall is
there because discrimination is there.... because hatred is there....
because regret is there.... because pain is there.... How are you going to
have your walls broken down?? The wall is only broken down once you
acknowledge your humanity, once you realize you are no more than anyone
else. Your wall comes down when you acknowledge that there is nothing to
hide and no defense mechanism to secure you. We need a word that is
redemptive. And the word is that GOD never leaves us with the middle wall in
our lives because of something we put in every middle wall. Every middle
wall in our lives has one thing in it: it has a door...There i! s a door. It
is connected to your heart. But nobody will come busting in. Nobody will
break down your door. The lock is not on the outside. The lock is on the
inside. And Jesus says, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock..
Revelation 3:20

Just to let you guys know by no stretch am I a religious fanatic

The following is a post by Roy from the original email dialogue. The focus was on questions (fundamental questions) that we should know about the other person:

Yes we're all coming/going through a transformative process and these
questions are pertinent. Despite our pursuit of truth I think very few
men/women are comfortable with the truth, of course since we're on this
endeavor we might be part of the few.

In asking these question of a potential partner, the order is important. I
would ask #4 (Spiritual Beliefs) & #7 (lessons learned) first. The answers
will tell a lot about that person and determine what's next.

As an example how would you respond to someone saying they're an athiest or
someone who says they've been wronged by their EX, hates him and will never
get hurt again by a man. Its the same with us "takes two"

I believe the process of self examination is aided by and through our relationships. It is through our relationships, that we continue to define who we are. Everything that we know and experience about ourselves, we understand within the context that is created by our relationships.

In this relative experience, I can only be who I am in relationship to something else in my experience. I can't experience the "I am" except in relationship to something else. This includes relationship with people, places and things..
So I think that not only do we know ourselves out of relationships, but we define ourselves as well.

Some folks claim that they know themselves. We are all aware of our many likes and dislikes. I like chocolate, horror movies, sking, cooking, the color red, etc, but is this really knowing yourself. Why do my relationships always turn out the way they do? Why am I attracted to this type of person? The answers to these types of questions speak to who we really are. Knowing yourself is a journey not a destination. And, the hard work of finding ourselves can be the key to unlocking the problems we regularily encounter in our relationships. I believe that these answers are reached only through ongoing self-examination

A quote from Bell Hooks
Salvation:Black People and Love:

The capacity to love is so tied to being able to be awake, to being able to move out of yourself and be with someone else in a manner that is not about your desire to possess them, but to be with them, to be in union and communion

Love is not demanding, constraining, stiffling or conditional of who you are or want to be. Love should be uplifting and liberating. what many people call love, I believe, is possession. A relatingship, marriage or otherwise, does not conote ownership. What folks call love in this modern society is in many case self love. Much of what we want out of a relationship centers upon "what I want."

Well, I think the point of finding the right one, is the point of how we arrive to ourselves. To say the right one, I believe limits our possibilities, and impedes the process of self development. Certainly we have some requirements. But what is the right one?? I think as we evolve, there is no such person as the right one. It's an illusion that places emphasis on the external existence, stunting our growth.

For me, we can only develop an attitude that allow us to see the beauty in all. Everyone has a questionable criteria in their back pocket, that at every stage of their development, should also morph with profoundness.
This to me is spiritual growth.
And I think this process will begin to allow us to see how, this right person that we are looking for, has less to do with a real person, than what it speaks to about ourselves.

Of course everyone should meet a fundamental criteria, i.e., decency, honest ( in particularly with themselves, because I'll reap the benefits, one way the other), respectful and etc...

Most of the time, there exist in one individual, a sort of psychological hook, for the other to hang their coat of projections onto. And very often, when we recognize a trait in another individual that gives us discomfort, (of which everyone has some traits, the right persons(?), or not),that speaks our internal make up, and could be part of something unknown about ourselves, a manifestation of some inner dynamics. So for me, the right person is me. If not, then for me, it begins to feel like passive victimhood. I am in a constant state of becoming.

Life does not discriminate in its various ways, awakening and leading us to discover our basic identity.
This is the first time in history, men and women have begun to relate to each other, outside of our prescribed roles. So the inherent friction can serve to be a passage of which we all reach ourselves. And at this juncture of history, we are all, men and women, apprentices. All involved in the process of creating something new. This is a fascinating period we live in. There are no models of the past that serve relationship, or how couple relate today. This is becoming apparent to me, through the forums... True communication is trying to be born for the first time. I welcome the conflict to break away from the outdated patterns, that has been predetermining our lives.

Question. Are we confining ourselves to the poles of intimacy, sharing our depth, pushing buttons, while neglecting or avoiding actual relationships?

I have arrived to understand that, loving myself means to live in what is given, through the expression of love... Sure we could debate for the two hundred years, what is love, but that does very little for my accepting and appreciating the greatest gift a human can give another, from their context of understanding what love is... My avoiding the realization of this, may speaks to my own ambiguities,and inner dynamics, absolving me to acknowledge people from the best space of where they are.. So for me, i have to constantly work on being the right one for me..........

Pulling the plug is seldom easy. And, unfortunately men are viewed as emotional eunchs who drift in and out of relationships - another topic - but I had to say it

Anyhoo... We often give power over ourselves to things and circumstances outside of us. In reality, a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron The beginning of wisdom, so to speak, is that each individual is responsible for their wellbeing, whether emotional, physical, mental, or spiritual Our life circumstances may change, but our life, that what makes us who we are, is under our control ALONE, as quiet as it's kept, and can only be given to another "ARTIFICIALLY" at our detriment!

The time to pull the plug, varies from person, to person.... Working as a director at domestic violence
facilities, gave me a lot of insight as to how people will react to similar situations...
On the outside, as an observer, we don't see and feel all the internal dynamics, that shapes a person
point of pulling the plug.... It's very complex. It as though, the rest of the world is watching a movie staring you,(at least that how I felt), and they see some of the things you see, and they want to know , why don't he run, for his safety... Making a decision to run for cover, or pulling the plug, is a very difficult decision to make ... especially if it involves a lot of history and other lives... If the person decide to do so, the day they came to that conclusion, takes a hell of a lot of pondering, and possibly, re visiting a lot of painful moments..... It aint easy... so I know when I'm watching the movies, why sometimes they don't run...

Monogamy does not preclude dating. Dating is a process of testing the waters where one actively seeks to meet those of the opposite sex to determine the possibility of a relationship. What "A Case for Monogamy" is referring to is once an individual makes a choice to pursue a relationship with an individual!

Relationships today are often entered into arbitrarily and at a dizzying pace. Cultivating a meaningful relationship requires taking the time to really know a person, and in the process, establishing intimacy on many levels beyond the physical. The time and effort required to successfully do this becomes difficult at best with multiple partners. Add to this, today’s health challenges from AIDS and STD’s to the sexual and performance issues faced by both men and women, having multiple relationships can almost be schizophrenic.

A relationship is a reciprocal process self-discovery and opening oneself to another individual. To engage in this process requires courage and the cultivation of a trust that takes time and cannot be rushed. This process of discovery and sharing both honors and displays mutual respect for the participants. To successfully do this, with multiple partners, though possible, in my opinion, is beyond the capabilities of most men and women. That’s my take, what’s yours.

There comes a point in a new relationship when the question arises, when to be sexually intimate. What should be going on in the relationship to indicate that the time is right? Are there any trust issues involved? In this age of AID's and STD's, is sexual intimacy something both parties should discuss or is it a spontaneous, magical experience? Does the prevalence of STD’s make monogamy a viable option in a relationship? Is the pursuit of sexual satisfaction between two people the basis for happiness? Is mutual sexual satisfaction a sign of happy relationship? Should orgasm be the end pursuit..

What’s Love Got To Do With It! Making Relationships Work.

Really getting to know someone is a process of peeling away layers. The task is further impeded by the tendency of many to focus upon the external things that in the long run do not sustain relationships. What we call love, in many cases is really infatuation that has nothing to do with the other person. From these false beginnings, we enter relationships expecting fulfillment and longevity. Statistics bear proof that the roadmap that we follow is not taking us where we say we want to go. “What’s love got to do with it” is a frank discussion regarding how individuals tend end up with the same person, though a different individual and with the same relationship outcomes. How do we let go of visions of reality that are not borne out by experience? How do we begin to get beyond the baggage and fantasies that get in the way of sustaining healthy relationships?

Contrary to popular opinion, The Flow argues that cheating is just not some uncontrollable male impulse that women are at the mercy of, but cheating is something where we all, men and women are both the perpetrators and victims. In Why Men Cheat, we will examine what is “cheating” within a broad social context showing that there is no simple answer as to why men cheat.

Our relationship with ourselves is the prime relationship. How do we get there?

Among themselves, Angelo Hunt, Marc Collins and Roy Frank have racked up two divorces and a legal separation, and one even delivered the hurtful news to a waiting bride - two weeks before the wedding - that their nuptials had to be called off.

"She didn't take it very well. It was hard for me also. I got very depressed," said Hunt, who had one ex-wife when he dissolved the aforementioned engagement two years ago.

Frank's divorce was a year old at the time, a hole that was just beginning to close. And Collins' marriage was drifting into the danger zone.

Wanting to unload that sack of sadness, throw off the dead weight of failure in love and matrimony, the longtime friends said, they found themselves becoming more emotionally available to each other. In their get-togethers and phone chats, they began a rolling conversation about hardships of the heart and how they might fare better the next time around.

Extending this exercise beyond their small circle, last summer they launched a traveling seminar, "For the Love of the World," in which Hunt, 52, Collins, 49, and Frank, 53, steer a public dialogue aimed at persuading aspiring mates to talk and listen, listen and talk before leaping into long-term commitment.

In the heat of hunting for Mr. Right or Mrs. Right, they counsel, figure out the level of true compatibility with that person you fear is your last romantic possibility. Ask tough questions about whether two people belong together.

"We've been socialized with these concepts of love, intimacy, that have no bearing on reality," said Collins, a network engineer from Columbia, Md., in the ninth month of separation from his wife of 18 years.

"Most of my relationships," Hunt said, "have been closed-eyes propositions. Like beating a pi?±ata and when it bursts open, saying, 'Yes, that's exactly what I wanted.'"

"We're not always clear about our motivations," said Collins, who is Frank's cousin. "I might say I'm looking for happiness and intimacy, when, really, I'm just looking for my mama."

Hunt, Frank and Collins have dubbed this show The FLOW, in shorthand, and taken their common-sense approach to romance to venues ranging from radio stations in Washington, D.C., to living rooms on Long Island. Their topics: "What Is Love?," "Man Sharing," "Are You Ready for a Relationship?," "When to Pull the Plug" and, on a level far less salacious than the oversimplified title implies, they said, "Why Men Cheat."

They've built a Web site, www.buildandmaintain.com. This month, they are on the calendars of New York City's Human Resources Administration, where they will engage members of that staff. In July, they will be panelists at the Harlem Book Fair.

It's not that Hunt, Frank and Collins approach love and romance as experts on these subjects. Consider this from Frank, a sales and marketing guy from Clifton Park, N.J.: "I don't know what love is maybe. I do know that, to an extent, men in relationships feel they cannot be in love with someone unless there is sexual intimacy - but I'm not saying that's right."

"We don't agree on everything here," Collins said, interjecting and tweaking. "Love is not sex, and it is not possession of another person, either. Love should set you free. But with most people I see, love is a constricting, confining force."

None of them has been an exemplar of marital/relational perfection. But what they have, they said, is a willingness to examine why they hooked up with women who looked the part (whatever that means) and didn't live up to it. And, on the flip side, how they might have short-changed those women.

As part of their on-the-job training, they do read the personals to gauge what seems to matter most these days. The single person's wish list carries requirements for income, height, weight, extroversion, introversion and a range of other personal characteristics.

"You must have all your teeth, wear shoes, be educated, be well-traveled, charming, no baby-mama drama. You must know how to treat a woman. And there's nothing wrong with that...," Hunt said. "But people engage in relationships as though it's all hocus-pocus. What are the goals of that relationship? Is it supposed to be monogamous? Does it culminate in marriage? Are there any goals?"

Clearerheaded now, the men said, they believe the pursuit of Mr. Right and Mrs. Right might cool its heels some. It should be motivated by something more than "I'm getting older and I don't want to be alone," Frank said. "Because of what we've gone through, we know this is true."